I am a Trekkie because of TNG.
I missed it first run but caught it on syndication and for a long time it was my only Star Trek. I couldn’t get into DS9 and Voyager hadn’t aired yet, so I used to wait for 7pm to roll around and tune in for the adventures of Captain Picard and his crew on the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D. No one else in my family cared for it so it was my special show that I didn’t have to share with anyone. To some extent I still feel that way, because I am so rarely able to geek out about it with people. Most of the Trekkies I know are hardcore TOSsers or, interestingly, DS9 fans (I find this to be generational), so I’m really looking forward to the chance to talk about TNG with you guys.
TNG happens to be Eugene’s and my favorite Trek, so you may wonder why we didn’t just re-watch it to begin with. Well, when we embarked on the Star Trek Re-Watch two and a half years ago, the fact that the original series was only three seasons and 79 episodes definitely played a factor in our decision to go forward. TNG, on the other hand, has seven seasons and 176 episodes.
How It Will Work
That’s a big commitment, so we’re striking a bargain. We’re going to start off reviewing every episode in Season 1. Eugene and I do this for love of the game without cash reward, but all we ask is that you participate and you invite your friends to join us. Please spread the word! We can only continue doing this if we have an active audience, and the discussion on each episode is our favorite part of all this.
If there hasn’t been a lot of interest by the end of Season 1, then we’re going to do a selective re-watch of TNG. Before each season, Eugene and I will pick specific episodes (likely fewer than 10) that we want to cover, either because we love them or hate them (or just think they’re worth talking about). We’ll post the list, and you guys can comment and let us know if we absolutely HAVE to include X, Y, or Z on the list. If others back you up, we’ll probably add it. (Likewise, if you never want to watch “The Child” again, I am so with you. Just comment.)
We feel this is the most fair way to balance the needs of the many with the needs of the two.
Logistical Changes
We’re not both going to write about each episode. We did this with TOS because Eugene was re-watching and I was a total n00b so we usually had different reactions, but this time we’re both re-watching, and we don’t want it to get redundant (or get too burned out by the time commitment). We’ll both be watching all the episodes, but for the posts that Eugene writes I’ll just be another commenter and vice versa.
Likewise, we’re going to cut down our plot summaries and nix most of the trivia because, well, Memory Alpha is out there. TOS had a lot of syndication edits that weren’t listed on MA, but TNG is pretty well annotated on the net. We’d like this to be a place to sit at the bar and chat, not create a comprehensive encyclopedia.
As for watching along, CBS.com has been hemming and hawing about having the old series online, and in any case TNG doesn’t appear to be there. It was recently added to Netflix’s Watch Instantly library and Amazon Prime, so I hope those of you with access will be able to follow along that way or with DVDs.
Lastly, we’ll be keeping our Warp rating system of 1-6 despite the advances in warp technology.
Final Note
We’ll begin the re-watch the Thursday after Thanksgiving with the two-hour series premiere, “Encounter at Farpoint.”
So that’s that! I hope you’ll all stick around and be able to join us for this new journey. Have you all seen TNG before? Any favorite/least favorite episodes you can recall from the get-go, and favorite/least favorite characters?
I’ll save the best/worst episodes for the re-watch, but am happy to disclose that my least favorite character was probably Ro Laren, and my favorite character was (and may always be) Geordi LaForge.
I just completed a total re-watch of TNG about a year and a half ago. It took me quite a long time to do and there were quite a few episodes that I’d somehow never seen before. I was also surprised at just how well some of the topics hold up. It’s hard to remember, sometimes, that this show ended 10 years before the Iraq War.
I’ve sort of half-heartedly started on a DS9 watch. I never did see all of it and the first two seasons now don’t thrill me. I also recently (like two months ago) finished and really enjoyed a re-watch of [i]Enterprise[/i] but I admit that I’m weird like that.
Anyway, I’ll probably watch some of my favorite TNG episodes with y’all, so long as they’re still on Netflix. My all time favorite is [i]The Inner Light.[/i]
Favorite character? I guess it’d be a toss-up between Picard and Data. Least favorite? Yar. The one that I hated the most when the show first aired and now don’t mind so much? Wesley. I also had a major crush on Gates McFadden back in the day, but now we might be crossing into TMI so I’ll stop there.
Damn it. We don’t use BBCode here! *sigh*
I an one of those DS9 fans you mention, so I’m in for this. Just one thing: is it a good idea to do the weakest season in toto and then ask about the better seasons?
I’ll check in periodically, as I did before. Of course, since I work retail and we’re now heading into (grits teeth ) “THE MOST WONDERFUL TIME OF THE YEAR”
( bullS%!* – by the way ), my time will be limited.
Also, if you want to enhance your viewing experiences, at least for the first few episodes, you should really check out Wil Wheaton’s hilarious recaps of the episodes he posted online ( also available in books I’d love to get ). As someone who was there, his insights and critiques are dead-on, and dead funny. If you are interested, here’s a link to a page:
http://www.aoltv.com/bloggers/wil-wheaton
Looking forward to it, although I have to confess Season One is a bit of a slog without a lot to like about it… other than its potential. IIRC, there was a screenwriter’s strike underway when Season One aired and it seems evident in nearly every episode.
Also you had things like GR’s foolish dictates that the Ferengi would be the ultimate baddies that, obviously, just did not, could not, play out in real time. And there were some decisions and departures from TOS that just strike me as bizarre, such as no designated engineering command section….
In hindsight, this premiere season seems just painfully amateurish in a way that *would not* be true in later seasons.
Awww yay! TNG!
This has always been both my favorite Trek, and a cornerstone of my worldview growing up. I still remember all of these fondly and treasure them. Even when there was a lot of mediocrity.
DS9, on the other hand, was pretty bad. Even in the later seasons, where it got better, it was pretty bad — and that’s without touching on Vic Fontaine. *shudders*
@ 1 Weirman
I actually did a full re-watch of TNG about 5 years ago, and I was also surprised at how well some of the topics hold up. Surprisingly, we’re still fighting some of the same fights…
I watched all of DS9 for the first time (with Eugene!) maybe a year or two ago, and I was deeply unimpressed. The first two seasons are basically trash, aside from ONE episode I really loved. Then there’s a lot of dicking around until the action in seasons 5 and 6, and then the last season is half great and half really dreadful. Generally I found DS9 to be consistently mediocre, with the occasional moment of brilliance. But I also found it to be more backwards in gender and race politics than TNG, which was both earlier and less bold/adventuresome in that arena.
And yeah, no bbcode, just HTML. But there’s a preview button!
@ 3 BSD
If we skipped all the bad ones and went right to season 2, and then decided to go back, all we’d have left are the bad ones… Would you go back if all you had to look forward to was “Angel One,” “When the Bough Breaks,” and “The Naked Now”?
@ 4 Dep1701
I love those Wil Wheaton posts. He ranks highly on my “most awesome ex-Trek star” list, beneath George Takei and Patrick Stewart.
@ 5 Lemnoc
Yeah, that’s what’s so killer: the potential is there and yet so much is off. But we’ll get into that!
@ 6 DeepThought
Please don’t touch Vic Fontaine.
TNG is the series I watched the most of when considering the re-born Trek line. However, there was quite a bit about the Next gen shows that put me off. I have never engaged in much of a rewatch because most of the episode simply weren’t memorable to me. It will interesting rewatching them as part of this exprience and seeing how I view them now. (likely to be a tad on the harsh side, please don’t hate me.)
I’ve never subsricbed to the perfectiablity of humans that Roddenberry did so fully. I think 400 years from now, unless there is a nerd-rapture, we’re going to find that people are basically the same. Noble, greedy, heroic, cowardly, vain and humble, and often all in the same person.
@8 bobsandiego
In other words, the drama seeds.
Yes, at the risk of getting ahead of ourselves, this is what made so much of the early TNG material so static.. and impressed lasting harm on characters(?) like LaForge, who never had a personality and never developed one, either. Can you imagine any other television show (where denial of humanity’s “luscious” qualities would not at all be a goal or a concern) a character featured in the opening title credits going eight seasons w/o a shred of personality?
@7 Torie: if the public demanded it. I don’t suspect they would.
I’m going to defend ds9. TNG is comrehensively gender-backwards, and its stabs at addressing gender issues are incredibly halfhearted (Riker+neuter wimp out). Kira is lionized for her moral judgment and sexism is universally conddemned as at least backwards. Racially, it includes Far Beyond the Stars and includes exactly one white human male in the cast, at the bottom of the main cast hierarchy.
Say what you want about it’s pacing, but beyond the antisemitism underlying the Ferengi, it’s fairly racially diverse.
Quoting BobSandiego, #8:
Perhaps Roddenberry believed in this, but I’m not really convinced that his show did. Many of the plots centered around the weaknesses you mentioned here — not necessarily in the main crew members, but certainly within the Federation. The whole “never trust an admiral” rule had to come from somewhere, right?
@Lemnoc #9 — No personality? Really? I think he was just a shy nerd. He did get a bit more adventuresome as time went on, but I don’t think he was any less defined than, say, Sulu…
@BSD #10 —
Seriously? Where? Almost every single decision she makes in the entire series is wrong. Every time. If Kira suggests it, it’s either morally dubious or doomed to failure. And Dax is possibly the worst thing to happen to women until Mad Men — she legitimized Ferengi treatment of women! Admittedly TNG has Crusher-Troi aerobics get-togethers with girl talk, which wasn’t exactly a shining moment… I guess we’ll see as the rewatch continues : )
OMG, be still my fluttering heart, discussion of sexism in Star Trek. Whee! :D
Looking forward to this. I haven’t even read the post yet, but I was struck with a need to guffaw helplessly when I came to this line:
That. Is. Hi. Frakking. Larious.
Yes, many hardcore Trekkies are tossers. :D
Thankfully, not here! More comment after I read the post, I just had to say “I see what you did there!”
I think there are arguments both ways about the non-TOS series of Trek, in terms of racism and sexism particularly*: while TNG had a much better gender balance and racial diversity than TOS, one would have hoped so, in twenty years. And even there, the balance is subtly still the status quo: the oldest white (alpha) male runs things, with the help of the youthful alpha-to-be, and a group of betas. The womenfolk are the carers (Doctor Crusher and Counselor Troi), except for the Busted One who’s all manly and buff (see also Aliens‘ Vasquez, a trope namer). The Black members of the crew are the guy who grunts and fights a lot and who is extremely culturally other, and the earnest bookish assimilator.
DS9 definitely turned some of that upside down: an educated and experienced Black man in charge, with a military and somewhat nationalist woman as his Exec, foreign woman as science officer, slightly effeminate and typed non-“White” Bashir as the doctor.
As you say, though, Kira turned out to be almost always wrong, and Dax turned out to be one of those “I want to be one of the boys” girls, who so often deride that there is such a thing as sexism.
I think, though, that each series has taken us (I can’t speak to Enterprise, as I never saw it) further along that road, and commendably so. There’s still plenty to critique, and some really appalling episodes in the first season to critique ’em with. :D
This should be a fun ride.
* Homophobia and transphobia get left to the very rare Very Special Episode, but let’s make allowances for American TV standards and their bizarre obsession with the 1950s.
@ 8 bobsandiego
That’s basically the first 2 seasons. There are a lot of unmemorable, mediocre episodes. That said, what I admire most about the show is that while the characters did have conflict, it was never petty. They didn’t bicker. It was never over things that were stupid or irrelevant.
@ 9 Lemnoc
You wound me! You’re just saying that because I said he was my favorite character. :( I love Geordi. He’s the shy nerd who’s excessively competent. I love that he loves his “disability” and finds beauty in seeing the world differently. And I especially love his kindness, patience, and friendship towards Data.
@ 12 CatieCat
The TOSsers joke was for NomadUK. :) But yeah, more feminists! PLEASE. I mean, I do take special pride in having been called a cunt for writing about women in Star Trek, but flanking is always welcome.
@ BSD, DeepThought, CatieCat re: DS9
TNG won’t win any awards with me for women (as many others do, I loathe both Yar and Troi), but I have always really liked Crusher. She doesn’t take any BS, she manages to be a respectable single mother who’s devoted to her son AND her job, and she actually is really invested in improving herself (taking the night duty to command). I especially loved her relationship with Picard. There’s a sense that in another life they could have made it work, but it won’t work here and now, and they’re OK with that. It’s mature, thoughtful, and honest.
Then there’s DS9. Sisko may have been in charge but they didn’t even make him a captain for what, four years? His characterization waffled between “angry black man” and “space Jesus,” two entirely unfortunate stereotypes. He did improve but those first few seasons were rough. I hated Kira more than anyone. Not only is she wrong every time, but she’s bullheadedly, outrageously wrong. When they put her in a long-term relationship, her whole mind flies out the window and she does totally bizarre, out-of-character things for her boyfriend. Dax I hated. The worst moment for me was when she sat down to one of her Ferengi poker games and they all started creepily hitting on her, and I think it’s Bashir or someone asks her: doesn’t that bother you? And her response was essentially “Oh I was a man, and boys will be boys! Tee hee hee!” UGH.
And of course there’s always Keiko “The Shrew” O’Harpy, the less said about the better.
I’ll say this right up front – so that you’ll not be caught off guard later. I loved Dr. Pulaski in the second season. She was like that boy who ran his soap-box racer straight down the hill instead of following the winding trail in that Hummer H3 commercial. She spoke her mind (and I didn’t always agree with her point of view) but she didn’t let her differences get in the way of working with other people. To me, she more than any other Star Trek character would seem right at home in James White’s Sector General stories. (A book series I still love, and, I’m sure, this is part of the reason I liked her character so much.)
And as discussion has started on DS9, I’ll say that I wasn’t sure about the series until the episode where Sisko was sure that Nog was going to lead Jake into trouble. The silly plot of both parents making fools of themselves in acting on their fears didn’t win me over. It was that scene where Sisko discovers Jake and Nog in the storage compartment and discovers that he had been wrong did it. In that scene I saw that even the minor characters were being given potential to grow. I decided to stick with it and I’m glad I did.
Late to the discussion here, but I’m looking forward to the whole thing, TNG and whatever may come after. The first two seasons are largely regrettable, especially the first, but at least the valleys are so low they’re fun in a MST3K way (well, except for one or two that will make your brain bleed). If you decide not to go for ALL the episodes once we get into the later seasons, then a forum set-up like Torie mentioned could cover the gaps very nicely. Just set up a thread for each of the skipped episodes and we can talk about it without any formal analysis from our hosts.
I’m also going to stick up for DS9. Sure, the first two seasons were poorly done and the last season disappoints a bit (there was a lot of political stuff going on behind the scenes with Avery Brooks and they punished his character for it), but the middle years were excellent. For “Far Beyond the Stars” and the speech made by the renegade officer/Maquis spy (trying not to get too spoilery here) that compares the Federation to the Borg, I will forgive them a lot.
Sure, the first season of TNG is fairly tragic in a lot of its awfulness but I think it’s going to be a blast to talk about. I would love to see us the rewatch cover every episode, both good and bad. After all, some of the best discussions I’ve read here concerned the very worst of TOS.
For some reason, everyone agreeing “That episode rocked!” leads to a lot less discussion. So I think there’s a lot of potential for great fun in these first two seasons.
I always liked Dax, but then, I haven’t seen most of those episodes that people are talking about. Now I’m even more reluctant to continue watching than I had been.
Geordi isn’t my favorite but I still really like him. I definitely don’t think he was devoid of personality. I do wish they’d been able to do more with him, though.
@16 DemetriosX
I had suggested creating a placeholder post for episodes we didn’t want to cover, so people could still discuss them, but I wasn’t sure if that would work–and it would still drag things out for a long time or potentially distract from the regular reviews. Though the lows in TNG are very low, I still think there’s some valuable discussion to be had about them, so I’m tentatively optimistic about moving ahead with this plan. Especially since so many seem to be enthusiastic about following along and participating.
I’m also going to stick up for DS9, as Torie thought I would. Our re-watch was my second time through the whole series, and I enjoyed it much more than I did when I first saw it. When the show aired, it was just too different from the Trek I was used to, and I didn’t like the characters as much, so I think I gave it short shrift. But years later, I feel that the stories hold up better perhaps than TNG does, at least in the big picture, though not on an episode-by-episode basis. Despite often bad scripts, I think the way I engage with plot has changed, and I like the more complicated and layered approach of DS9 as a series, and especially the character development and growth–flaws and all. Every Trek has had a weak final season (though I don’t recall Voyager’s being weaker than the rest of it), and I think DS9 found its footing sooner and took the series in an unexpected and overall successful direction that I found refreshing and daring for a Trek series.
I’ve read the DS9 Companion, but a long time ago. I don’t recall this behind-the-scenes conflict with Avery Brooks that you mentioned, but I’m curious about it.
I could talk about all this at greater length, and perhaps I will have that chance, but I don’t think Torie can be convinced to re-watch DS9 any time soon.
@15 Ludon
The thing is, conflict makes characters and story interesting, and there was fairly little internal conflict within the main cast–except with Dr. Pulaski. Her dislike for Data was evident, and she had a hard personality, which led to some interesting exchanges. One of my favorite bits of dialogue is her insistence on pronouncing Data’s name as “dah-tuh” instead of “day-tuh.” She asks what the difference is, and he responded with “One is my name. The other is not.” Maybe it’s just the fanboy in me enjoying a glimmer of a Spock/McCoy relationship there, but her character had a chance to grow and learn to appreciate Data and recognize him as a person, even in her short stint on the series.
Quoting Eugene #18:
I think what you’re describing here is the influence of The X-Files and the idea of television with a series-long or show-long arc generally. There was a big split in the ’90s where television dramas stopped being entirely episodic and started having continuity; DS9 and TNG fall on different sides of that split.
So DS9 was trying, and TNG was not, to do those sorts of things. That said, I’m not really convinced DS9 was all that good at it — there’d be a handful of ‘mythology’ episodes, followed by some crap with singing holograms, etc. Moreover, I didn’t really find most of the character development very convincing (the various love plots? yech, and most of what they did with Odo was done better before when it was Data), and the overarching plot never seemed to go anywhere or make much sense. But I should probably wait for the DS9 rewatch before going any further along these lines!
***
As for Pulaski, I’ve maintained for a while now that she’s basically a female Bones. The problem is that Bones is a lovable, irascible old coot. Give the same dialogue to a female character and she just comes off as shrewish and pig-headed. More to the point though, she was too much Bones. TNG worked best when they got Roddenberry out of the way and kept him from trying to do the exact same show all over again — when they let the characters be new people rather than recasts of Spock and Kirk and McCoy and the like. I expect I will soon have some evidence to back up this belief — yay TNG Rewatch!
@20 DeepThought
That said, TNG did have occasionally memorable and lengthy story arcs. Worf’s coming of age amid the Klingon civil war stands out among them.
@18 Eugene: Most of what I know about it comes second or third hand through comments by Steve Barnes, but basically Brooks kept pushing for Sisko to be a complete human being and they kept undercutting him. He argued for a long time that Sisko should be through grieving for his wife and move on. Eventually they brought in Cassidy Yates, then kept her off the show most of the time and finally unq ure orgenl uvz sbe gur Zndhvf. (ROT13 since I don’t know how to make text white.) There was apparently some bad blood there and even his final apotheosis wasn’t supposed to be quite like that. Put another way, it was basically Avery Brooks pushing against Hollywood’s all too standard presentation of black characters and Hollywood resisting. Note that he pretty much left Hollywood after that and mostly does teaching and some stage work these days.
@20 DeepThought
I like engrossing plot arcs, but I think I’m just interested in having a sense that actions have consequences on society and the characters beyond that single episode. As Lemnoc points out, many of the Klingon episodes carried out a continuing narrative that not only affected Worf and his standing in the Empire, but their relations with the Federation and within Klingon society. Ditto with the Romulans, at least in “Unification.” Too often it felt like things simply reset to the beginning, with some continuity threads having an impact on later episodes. (On the other hand, a bad example of this is the Warp 5 speed limit, which was thankfully ignored eventually.)
I too like it when a show has large scale arc in their episodes. It doesn’t have to be tigh cliff-hangers all the time. (In fact I hate cliff hanger season endings.) TNg played at having Arcs, but would usually drop the ball.
I’m looking forward to this continued re-watch.
I can’t see above whether the plan is to continue with Thursdays? I’m fine with it, just want to know when to set my reminders for. :)
This is pretty cool. TNG was my first Trek too, though the Origianl Cast movies followed close on its tail. My wife and I recently rewatched the first season of TNG, so I look forward to following along with the show pretty fresh in my memory.
Its funny…rewatching the first season, I realize now how the production values weren’t all that different in many ways from TOS…sure the makeup was more elaborate and the visual effects were slicker, but that has more to do with advancements in the quality of technology and equipment…the sets still feel like sets, and you can see the limitations of television as you watch the show.
I really liked Pulansky in the 2nd season, and I was quite surprised when I learned the fandom hated her. I mean I didn’t find her sympathetic or nice, but she HAD a personality (even if it was sometimes similar to McCoy’s) unlike many other characters in the first two-three seasons. I even liked that her character sometimes clashed with the others’, because even in the last season, I thought the staff of the Enterprise was overly in agreement (besotted, haha) with one another.
Ensign Ro had the chance to become something similar, but the writers didn’t really use her, much to the pity.
So here I am waiting for the re-watch, and more so, if later Torie and Eugene don’t feel up to writing about an episode, I’m willing to share my opinion – there are some really dreadful episodes I’d be happy to trash. :-)
@27 enahma
I think a lot of the rancor came from a juvenile fanboy base, where you had fanboys thinking Dr. Crusher was a hot babe, outraged because Pulaski was not. No, she was a strong-minded, mature woman who stood up to the captain in an era when no one else did.
The same kind of fanboy animosity was also directed as Wesley in earlier seasons, although with perhaps more justification as he was GR’s “mary sue” (Li’l Orphan) Annie Skywalker. Seasoned writers put him in his place in the pantheon and he became less insufferable as seasons went on.
My beef with Wesley is that the producers threw away a wonderful writing tool when they made him a part of the crew. When introduced Weslet was out side the chain of command, and that means everyone else on the ship would have a different relationship with him than with anyone else. They would say and reveal things that they never could to a shipmate. This could have been a great character to peeling back layers and showing us who these people were underneath the uniforms.
@25 CaitieCait
I believe we’re planning to continue them on Thursdays, but Torie will correct me if I’m wrong.
28 Lemnoc: my thoughts precisely. :-)
29 bobsandiego: I agree. They could’ve made him less insufferable in that way too. But perhaps the writers just didn’t care. Or Roddenberry didn’t let them.
Hm, I don’t think I have a “least” favorite character. However, in my defense, I’d like to say I do tend like characters that many don’t, including Wesley, Guinan, and Dr. Pulaski. My favorites are, in order of how much I like them, Data, Captain Picard, Diana Troi, and Dr. Crusher.
“Ensign Ro had the chance to become something similar, but the writers didn’t really use her, much to the pity.”
Unfortunately, that can be blamed on Michelle Forbes. I read in interviews with the production staff that she did not want to become a series regular. For one, she was afraid of being typecast, and wanted to pursue a film career. A pity, as the Ro Laren character was a refreshing dash of spice to the otherwise sometimes bland TNG mixture. I missed the moments we would see on TOS, where McCoy would occasionally make Kirk second guess his judgement, or in “The Naked Time” where Uhura finally snapped back at Kirk. Those were realistic, human moments that were often sorely missing on TNG.
Ironically, for someone who was afraid of being typecast in SF, Forbes ended up guesting as the marginally similar “Admiral Cain” character in Ron Moore’s rebooted “Battlestar Galactica”.
As to the Pulaski Vs. Crusher debate; As a gay man, I never cared who was ‘hotter’. I was disappointed that Gates was leaving, but thought Diana Muldaur would be a good replacement. My big problem with her character has already been touched on by others here; she was too much a McCoy clone; Have her ruffle the captain’s feathers? Okay. Have her not understand Data? Well…alright… but getting a little close to McCoy/Spock territory ( and in an less likeable ‘ picking on a child’ kind of way ). Make her a wiseass? Umm, you’re getting a little too close to Bones now. Afraid of transporters? Okay, now you’ve gone too far. You might as well have rehired De’ Kelley as McCoy’s son ( actually, that wouldn’t have been a bad idea… Diana Muldaur’s character could have been written as Joanna McCoy, which would have explained all the similarities…nah, the age would have been wrong ).
This is going to be a good fight! I can see it already.
I hated Dr. Pulaski almost as much as I hated Ro Laren. Both were supposed to be strong women types who just came off as unsympathetic harpies with power issues. Granted, Michelle Forbes has kind of trademarked that cliche by now, but I felt it was a huge waste of Diana Muldauer who we all know is capable of real nuance. Her resistance to Data flew in the face of obvious observation, and her tête–à–têtes with Picard felt more awkward than anything else. People have already noted she was too much Bones, which might be the best articulation of the problem I have with her that I’ve ever seen.
@ 21 Lemnoc
I would argue that TNG has quite a few series arcs, but they tend to be mainly personal ones (also, again, an effect of syndication where you can’t have too much plot stretched out). Worf is a great example, but I also think of Data. His desire to be human evolved significantly over the years and wasn’t fully resolved until First Contact.
@ 25 CatieCat
Yep, Thursdays.
@ 26 glorbes
They got especially creative at rearranging the same sets to create different rooms and areas.
@ 29 bobsandiego
Would any of them really bothered talking to a kid about anything serious? I don’t know, Wesley always felt out of place on that ship. I think he was a wasted opportunity in a different way: a chance to show the kind of loneliness and boredom of space, and how much harder it is to grow up without kids your age around. I mean, Jake and Nog become friends namely because they’re the only people their age around! But mostly it just didn’t work for me because I feel that Star Trek has always been about adults with adult problems, and adding some Wonder Years into the mix just doesn’t make sense.
@33 Dep1701
I wonder how much of my reaction to Pulaski was tempered by the fact that I knew she would only appear in one season. I didn’t see Season 2 until after I had already seen some of 6, so even if she were sometimes/often annoying, she was a temporary nuisance and a refreshing change from other seasons. Same goes for Wesley, though I actually didn’t mind his character much, mainly because I liked Wil Wheaton so much as an actor and I could identify with Wes, as I was meant to.
I forgot to pick my favorite character. Of the main cast, I suppose it would have to be Picard, for his strong moral fiber and wonderful accent. Supporting cast: Q, though I also like Lwaxana Troi and Reginald Barclay (because I can’t help but feel sorry for him). Least favorite of the main cast: Deanna Troi. Least favorite supporting: Alexander.
34. Torie: I don’t fight. :-P I just think Pulansky’s character was a gush of fresh (though perhaps a bit stinky) air into a stale room. On the other hand, in Ro’s character I saw the possibility to evolve into something unique while rejuvenating the interactions of the usual crew.
I loved Pulaski.Yeah she was a harpy but she had character and fire. I found so many of the characters in Next Gen dull, lifeless, she had something more than “Perfect federation officer’ going on.
@34 Torie
Wes was the son of the chief medical officer, he would have as a civvie interacted with the command staff simply because of that. It would have been tricky to craft but if done he would have been a terribly effective expository character. Also rushing him into an officer’s job undercuts the value of being an officer. ( if you want to see an example of what I am talking about visit my blog. I wrote a full episode as a class project in college, it’s in the ‘trunk’ section of my blog titled ‘Journey Home’ where I tried to use Wes to open up a bit Tasha’s character.)
I wonder how much of Pulaski’s character was just cobbled and shoehorned together after the abrupt departure of McFadden and the uncertainty of whether she’d return. I mean, the series developers must have had some plan for Beverly—at the very least as the senior officer mother of an otherwise ineligible young ensign, and an intimate foil for the captain—that got seriously nerfed when McFadden departed the show. Without her, Wesley’s continued presence onboard was in doubt, and therefore her loss threatened TWO central characters. That, plus a crippling screenwriters strike, might have led GR to say, “Hell, let’s just stick Bones in there until we get it all squared.”
Had she endured, Pulaski might have become less insufferable.
Ro, I never had much of a problem with, although I do chuckle at Forbes fearing she’d be typecast by playing the same kind of pain-in-the-neck hardass she always plays. There was an episode when the ship was wrecked, no indication of survivors in the lower decks, and in imminent danger of core breach explosion. Her (forceful) opinion was to cut losses. It was hard, it was cruel, but it was definitely a COMMAND kind of decision that made me like her. She could just have easily have been right.
@37 bobsandiego
Yeas, it stuck in my mind: How would you feel if you studied helmsmanship and navigation at the Academy and were posted to the Enterprise(!!), then got bumped out by some snotty brat via some nepotistic relationship with the captain? For Wesley to play at the conn meant someone else’s career and dream got shafted.
I caught some of your coverage of TOS, but TNG is where my geek card got punched! I grew up watching TOS reruns, but TNG’s original airing hit me just as I was reaching adolescence. As such, it has a stronger claim on my allegiance. I started out identifying strongly with Data (yeah, for all the usual reasons of an introverted youth), but gradually shifted over to Picard as the one I looked up to the most. He was like a father figure to me in the absence of any real paternal presence in my life.
This will be great! I’m so excited. You’ll definitely have my support, guys! Alas, I won’t be rewatching the show along with you since I found out the show will be offered up on Blu-ray at long last starting next year. I own the DVDs already, but I’m willing to double dip for this show and would like to rewatch the episodes with *fairly* fresh eyes. It’s been 6 years since I’ve done a complete watch through of all 7 seasons.
So, from this devoted fan — ENGAGE!
Least favorite character: Yar. Mostly because her character is telling vs showing. She’s the toughest, she’s the best. The captain knows she’s an outstanding officer. Yadda yadda.
Favorite: Picard. I know, this is obvious. But can you imagine being dressed down by this guy? Yar in Yesterday’s Enterprise: “There’s no logic on this at all!” Wesley at the Academy: “The first duty of any Starfleet officer is to the truth…! I’ll make this plain, Mr Crusher…” etc. Worf: “This reprimand will appear on your personal record…” Riker: “You’ll answer to Starfleet on these charges…” The guy was a force to contend against.
I forgot: “Make it so.” Honestly, does it get any better than that? What a command.
Even though I have previously stated that Captain Picard is my favorite captain, and one of my favorite characters, I had a similar reaction (to YOUR reaction about Yar’s reported ‘toughness’) when they tried to give Picard a “manuever” too soon in the series, which he supposedly used in battle. This was like the 1st or 2nd episode, when none of us knew anything about any of them. So, to give this guy a ‘manuever’, based on his rep alone (which, again, he didn’t have yet), seemed a bit of a stretch. As a matter of fact, I wanted to throw a rock at the TV when whoever said it – said it, lol! “Look, pal, Captain What-ever-your-name-is! You don’t get a ‘manuever’ until at least Season 3!
@ 42 Lemnoc
One of my favorite personal ST memories was when I saw “Samaritan Snare” with DeepThought. In the episode Wesley and Picard are supposed to be having this Serious Conversation. Wesley asks Picard if he ever wanted kids, and Picard responds: “Wishing for a thing does not make it so.” DT and I turned to each other and said in unison, “No, saying ‘Make it so’ makes it so!”
And we both died laughing.
Speaking of Q and the Continuum. I wish they’d done so much more with that. There’s not even anything on Q (at least, not that much) on Wikipedia.
@50 David J. Batista
Welcome aboard!
I don’t think you should hold off on re-watching this with us, though. Those Blu-rays are going to take quite a while. They’re putting together a sampler disc for this year with just 3 or 4 episodes on it, and it’s taken them forever to remaster those. They’re going back to the original film negatives and scanning them in, and redoing all of the special effects from the original elements–we’ll be lucky to get one season on Blu-ray a year, and it may take even longer than that. And as much as I love this show, I was hard pressed to buy the DVDs at $100+ a season, and likely can’t justify picking them up on Blu-ray at significantly more expense. (In the end, I snagged a great deal on Craiglist for the whole series on DVD for a mere $135–and some of the seasons were still shrinkwrapped!) When you can buy just about any other TV series on DVD for less than $200, I can’t support Paramount’s tendency to force fans to pay through the nose over and over again, often for even less content than was available previously (eg. the movie Blu-ray set is theatrical version only).
Eugene,
You probably right. I already know about the long wait, but this is in my top three of all time favorite tv shows and I just *have* to get them on Blu-ray! Besides, I gave away my DVD sets to my little sister.
But, in the meantime there’s always Netflix streaming! So perhaps I will watch along after all. Regardless, I will be here to read what you guys have to say. Can’t wait!
P.S. — I was thinking of asking the SO for the Blu-rays TOS this Christmas. I actually never owned them on DVD, so it’s right time that I remedy that oversight. I was thinking of picking up the Motion Picture ones as well — both TOS and TNG collections. I sense a Star Trek movie marathon in my near future . . .
@47 David J. Batista
The movie Blu-rays are on sale for $40 this week at Amazon! I’m sticking with my LDs and DVDs until a more “definitive” collection is out. Don’t forget to check out our TOS movie re-watch during/after your marathon :)
I just changed the name of my bookmark for the rewatch from “TOS R” to “TNG R”.
Just thought I should mention it, because I am now, even in bookmark form, no longer calling the site a tosser.
Oh, and the “R” is Thursday, a holdover from my university days, when the schedule was laid out as MTWRFAU. :)
@ 47 David
Last I heard, only Wrath of Khan actually involved a new transfer for the blu-rays. The rest of the movies had just been upconverted digitally using the old transfer. Huge disappointment (and frankly, another really obnoxious attempt to make you buy a half-completed effort), so I’m going to wait for the next iteration myself.
@ 49 Cait
I had assumed it stood for re-watch!
@51
The TOS Blu-Ray are absolutely lovely. I still can’t get my firends to play Star Trek roulette with TOS, but I enjoy my collection.
@bobsandiego #52
Star Trek roulette with TOS movie blu-rays? I thought it was customary to use only one bullet when you have six chambers…
@51: No, I have all the re-watches/re-reads I read lined up as buttons on my Firefox menu bar. They’ve all got the abbreviation for the show, and the day(s) they appear. I do the same for my webcomics (Weregeek ftw!).
@ 51 Torie
That’s okay with me, unless I find out better Blu-rays are on the way sometime soon. Like with TOS, I don’t currently own any of the ST films, so this will be better than nothing. Also, Wrath of Khan done properly is really all I need. :)
@55 David J. Batista
Whether TWoK was done properly is open to interpretation–I believe it’s just the theatrical edition, without the few minutes of extra footage that were released in the director’s cut DVD and occasionally broadcast on television. I like those extra minutes!
Ah, I see. Thanks for the info, Eugene! Still, I’ve only ever seen the theatrical versions, so this could end up being a worthy Christmas present from my relatives. Less buyer’s remorse from me that way. :)
My favorite Enterprise captain is still Jellicoe. So there.
@S. Hutson Blount #58
My favorite Enterprise captain is still Jellicoe. So there.
Wait… is he the one that every year gives one special Starfleet captain a chance to be reborn at an orbiting space dock?
This is gonna be great. Seven seasons of tapioca pudding with the occasional raisin thrown in.
By the way, I liked Dr. Pulaski for the very reason that she got on badly with Data, the ship’s (and the show’s) favorite pet. How many times did he almost lead Enterprise to disaster because he broke down or got commandeered or whatever? If it were up to me he’d have been lying in bits on some Starfleet scientist’s lab bench by the end of the first season. And Dr. Crusher was so weak.
@ 60 etomlins
Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the holodeck? Because that thing was a death trap.
This is the most amazing Christmas gift I can think of!!!! Like you, I’m a Trekkie mostly due to TNG, it’s my favorite of all!!!!!! I’m going to be along for the ride, I hope you do every single episode of every season!
I started doing your TOS rewatch on…another site…and was horrified when I saw strange names in the season 3 section! So I’m sure happy to have found you and even happier to see you’re now on to TNG!!! :) Like I said it’s my fave of the two Star Trek series. Yep…TWO and only TWO series: TOS and TNG. Why do I say so, you might ask?
You see, I have to admit that I… uhmmm…I really only ever watched TOS and TNG. I hated DS9 when it came out ’cause I was a teenage girl with a huge hero worship thing going for Picard =), and here comes this Sisko upstart, out of NOWHERE and says he hates Picard because of what Locutus of Borg did?? I mean, how stupid can he be not to know the difference between the two, right? =P Never knew any fool could make Commander in the Federation….err….scrape that, I *did* watch Riker on TNG!
It also certainly didn’t help that DS9 was a…space station…as in it was only going to SIT there and not go ANYWHERE…BORING!! Not to mention that it was a hand me down station to boot? I mean, what were they thinking!!! LOL
I guess in my mind whenever they did promos for the new show I always thought Deep Space Nine was the name of this cool new type of ship that would go exploring into… Deep Space ya know! hehehehe Ok, so maybe they did some exploring but because I never got past the pilot I wouldn’t know! But enough time has passed that if you guys do a DS9 rewatch I *might* go along. /end teenage mode
As for Voyager since it aired on UPN and we didn’t get it at home, I never had the chance to see it, and Enterprise I don’t know, I guess I never caught it while it aired or it was also only on UPN … oh well, I liked Scott Bakula on Quantum Leap so maybe I’ll give it a try one of these days…and if you promise to do a rewatch I’ll wait for you guys! ;)
Whew!! Didn’t mean to make this so long, but since I way late to the party probably no one will read it….it’s just that since November I’m in Panama doing a consulting gig and have been very very busy…but I hope to catch up soon!! And I just wanted to introduce myself in a way….I have no one to talk to about Trek *sob* LOL
Ok, enough!
But I’m really excited about the TNG re-watch. Thanks so much!!! And I’ve enjoyed sooooooooooooooo much your TOS re-watch, you guys are so hilarious in your recaps!!! :D
@ 62 I read it. LOL
@63 :) Thanx!
@62 I also read it, and I’m *really* late to the party here!
I’ve watched pretty much everything that’s had to do with Trek, sometimes in a ‘live’ and organized fashion, other times at random. Hard to nail down what would be my absolute favorite between TOS & TNG, they’re pretty close for me. TOS gets a boost from sentimentality; as a child of the 70’s I didn’t see the show new but saw it in syndication when that little bubble of reruns was all there was to it. Because I was brought into it by watching with my dad, shows like TOS and the older “Doctor Who” always get bonus points in that way.
TNG gets a boost because it was the first series that I watched in its original run. And in a sense, the Wesley character was kind of like my surrogate on the ship, so I enjoyed that! Which is why I’m majorly psyched that Wil Wheaton will finally be coming east to this year’s Megacon- setting me up for a major ‘squee’ moment, I believe. :D
I enjoyed DS9 some, though the Dominion War story arc dragged a bit for me. I soured on Voyager early on, and am not sure if I really even watched all of the episodes. I rather liked the concept behind Enterprise, and enjoyed the series for the most part. The Xindi War season had me feeling the same viewer fatigue as the war in DS9, but I felt like the ‘fill in the backstory’ aspect of the final season was my reward for getting through it.
So I will try to catch up to the “live” point of the discussions here, and will see you in the comments!
Hi just curious if anyone could explain this comment:
(Likewise, if you never want to watch “The Child” again, I am so with you. Just comment.)
Was that not the perfect opportunity to watch the maternal instincts flower and bloom in Deanna Troi (introducing some real character development along the way?)
Say, I hope you guys aren’t going to stop doing these. I’ve been enjoying them very much.